Could SW really happen?

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DocRick
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Could SW really happen?

Post by DocRick » Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:47 pm

Yes, I realize the concept of tiny people is fantasy, but scientifically could it actually occur? In reality, shrinking of people is impossible as you can't reduce the size of molecules. Magic doesn't exist either, so let's rule that out.

So, where scientifically could it happen? I can think of two scenarios......

First, a Land of the Giants world. Since molecules cannot be enlarged or reduced, why couldn't there be a world where humanlike organisms grew to giant size? Not bigger molecules or cells, but more of them. Look at the T-Rex from our planet's history. It was a thousand times larger than a human being, thus having a thousand times more cells. (The same would apply to Earthlings on a planet of tiny people) If this was not the case, the tiny Earthlings couldn't breathe the air, drink the water or eat the food on that planet if the molecules were larger than on Earth. Gravity would be an interesting concept too. If the gravity of the giant's world was comparatively similar to our gravity's effect on us, the tiny Earthlings would be super agile, able to jump much, much higher and survive a fall from a much higher height than we can on Earth. Super strength, probably not. I don't think that would change.

Second, could a Borrower exist? Well, look at a mouse. Anatomically, other than size, they are not that much different than larger animals or even humans. They can breathe the air, drink the water and eat the food available on our planet. They are obviously not as intelligent as us, but scientists say we only use a small portion of our brain's potential, so what if a tiny race of hominids evolved into humans of a tiny size but with the ability to use much more or even their entire brain? Even in a mouse sized brain, they just might reach the same cognitive cerebral functional levels as us.

Thoughts?


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Re: Could SW really happen?

Post by Prof Sai » Mon Sep 16, 2024 4:09 pm

There are people who want to reduce the size of humans using estrogen injections. This prevents growth of children, rather that making existing people smaller. And they say they can keep people healthy while limiting growth to around 2 feet tall. This is justified by limiting resource use and environmentalism. Obviously this is a very fringe group.

In a mad scientist scenario, someone with imaginable technology might design a miniaturized human-like body, and then transfer someone's existing mind and knowledge into it. That thing about 10% of your brain is not accurate. But we have no idea what the real data density of the brain is, and if it can be improved. Our mad scientist could improve density by including elements not available to biology, like silicon or germanium. Also, the "clock speed" of the human brain appears to be around 60 hz. Staggeringly slow compared to microchips, but massively parallel. At this point we are pretty far into technobabble, so I'll move on.

If the 6 inch to one foot range were possible, you might wake up to find your own corpse looming massively above you, while a similarly giant maniac looks on. Like most organisms this size, your reaction times would be phenomenally fast, and you'd be able to jump two or three times your own height.

The 3 foot range is probably more realistic:


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Re: Could SW really happen?

Post by HHunter1 » Mon Sep 16, 2024 5:41 pm

I'm not going to say it is likely to ever happen. But I will also point out it was once thought by some that it was impossible for a human being to go faster then the speed of sound and survive. Now, that's actually all the time. So, anything is possible.

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Re: Could SW really happen?

Post by Prof Sai » Mon Sep 16, 2024 8:26 pm

Once you get into nanites and AI control, it is hard to come up with limits as to what is possible. And then of course there is simulation theory, where all bets are off.

In my stories I favor the cloning mechanic as it rules out any hope of the person being restored to normal. I also don't like the utter helplessness and despair of being too small. Having a fighting chance of escaping and living some kind of life is fun. But of course this gets away from this thread's topic.

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Re: Could SW really happen?

Post by Little Sally » Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:12 pm

DocRick wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:47 pm
Yes, I realize the concept of tiny people is fantasy, but scientifically could it actually occur? In reality, shrinking of people is impossible as you can't reduce the size of molecules. Magic doesn't exist either, so let's rule that out.

So, where scientifically could it happen?
Scientifically? Who knows. But I think either global warming or wars will intervene, to divert financial resources from these possibilities.

Fantasy is far more fun and cost effective anyway.

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Re: Could SW really happen?

Post by Prof Sai » Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:20 pm

Little Sally wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:12 pm
Scientifically? Who knows. But I think either global warming or wars will intervene, to divert financial resources from these possibilities.

Fantasy is far more fun and cost effective anyway.
In other words, an evil scientist unleashing a shrink virus is one of the more hopeful scenarios for humanity, because it implies retaining the technological ability to do such a thing.

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Re: Could SW really happen?

Post by DocRick » Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:44 pm

Little Sally wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:12 pm

So, where scientifically could it happen?
Scientifically? Who knows. But I think either global warming or wars will intervene, to divert financial resources from these possibilities.

Fantasy is far more fun and cost effective anyway.
[/quote]

True that. No rules in fantasy. ;)

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Re: Could SW really happen?

Post by DocRick » Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:45 pm

Prof Sai wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:20 pm
Little Sally wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:12 pm
Scientifically? Who knows. But I think either global warming or wars will intervene, to divert financial resources from these possibilities.

Fantasy is far more fun and cost effective anyway.
In other words, an evil scientist unleashing a shrink virus is one of the more hopeful scenarios for humanity, because it implies retaining the technological ability to do such a thing.
If they do, I hope it shrinks ALL animal life.

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Re: Could SW really happen?

Post by marr » Tue Sep 17, 2024 4:27 am

Without magic or future science magic no, the 'only use x% of our brains' thing is bullshit and tiny creatures have to spend the majority of their time eating to power their turbo metabolism. Biology cannot support any sort of human like existence at a dramatically different scale.

VR and robotics on the other hand...

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Re: Could SW really happen?

Post by Dr.Minimizer » Tue Sep 17, 2024 7:14 am

I have to agree with marr, it's not really possible, at least not biologically.

I wrote a story once where a scientist invented a machine that could change reality, and his male assistant used it to make his female compatriot tiny by altering things so she had always been that way (thereby changing the laws of nature so that tiny people would, in fact, be biologically possible). Of course he didn't think about the consequences, one of which was that in order for tiny people to survive throughout history, they had to evolve some sort of defense mechanism, which in this case wound up being incredibly powerful psychokinetic powers. He didn't exactly enjoy what came after she discovered that particular feature...

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Re: Could SW really happen?

Post by Captainsinbad » Tue Sep 17, 2024 5:08 pm

Maybe Sally Reynolds could it?

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Re: Could SW really happen?

Post by Hand-Holder » Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:54 pm

There will be robot living action figures, with reasoning and emotions, as realistic as "the real thing" and very much still on our life span, unless you are around 90 YO !!! :)

For Me it suffices, but I completely understand people who would not find a humanoid robot appealing !!!

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Re: Could SW really happen?

Post by DocRick » Tue Sep 17, 2024 9:04 pm

marr wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2024 4:27 am
Without magic or future science magic no, the 'only use x% of our brains' thing is bullshit and tiny creatures have to spend the majority of their time eating to power their turbo metabolism. Biology cannot support any sort of human like existence at a dramatically different scale.

VR and robotics on the other hand...
As far as tiny humans on our planet, yes, it is out of the realm of possibility, without stretching the limits of evolution to extremes. However, look at the dragonfly......250 million years ago, there were dragonflies with a wingspan of three feet. Now most dragonflies have a wingspan of three inches, the largest species with a wingspan of five inches. Due to various environmental factors, their size diminished dramatically. You are correct in your constantly eating as they would have the metabolism of a hummingbird, but food would probably be plentiful. A single blueberry would last a 6 inch tall human most of the day. And the x% of the brain thing you refer to as bullshit, is not entirely bullshit. While the common myth of 10% is way off base, according to neurologists today, there is about 25% of our brain that has no function that can be determined. So maybe the little people could have the intellect of a caveman. :lol:

What about the LOTG concept? We tend to believe intelligent life on other planets will have two legs, two arms and one head like us, so why not a mirror image of humans but at a gigantic scale? If what we believe to be true regarding matter, their world would have the same atomic structure and organisms would have cellular structure identical to ours, but way more of it. Just like the cells in an elephant are the same size as the cells in humans, or the cells in a blade of grass are the same size as the cells of a sequoia. The possibility exists. Even though our science says "it" can't happen, many scientific "facts" have been discovered to be bullshit later. The flat Earth thing.....just 500 years ago, nearly everyone believed the Earth was flat, even the most educated scientists.

But there is hope.......most of the papers I've read on human size evolution was determined mainly by the amount of red meat in their diets. The more red meat they ate, the taller their society became so.....with all the vegetarian females running around today, maybe in a few thousand years, they will discover a meatless diet causes people to shrink !!! :lol:

And VR is just that, virtual, like a dream you can control and robotics......doesn't matter how realistic they are, they are still simply robots. It would be like getting turned on by a cartoon.

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Re: Could SW really happen?

Post by Hand-Holder » Wed Sep 18, 2024 12:21 pm

I am pretty sure 90% people here can get turned on by a cartoon and regarding control, is not by chance I used Blade Runner and Ex Machina images, with AI your control is very much reduced, regarding Play
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Re: Could SW really happen?

Post by Prof Sai » Wed Sep 18, 2024 3:17 pm

Hand-Holder wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:54 pm
There will be robot living action figures, with reasoning and emotions, as realistic as "the real thing" and very much still on our life span, unless you are around 90 YO !!! :)
Well that's no fun for me. Maybe the other way? The robots and nanites build a world 4x larger to mock the human race, and shape themselves into giants to control us! And also lower the gravity by mining out the iron core of the planet.

Okay, I don't really want people to shrink, it's just a fantasy.

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Re: Could SW really happen?

Post by Hand-Holder » Wed Sep 18, 2024 3:36 pm

Prof Sai wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2024 3:17 pm
Hand-Holder wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:54 pm
There will be robot living action figures, with reasoning and emotions, as realistic as "the real thing" and very much still on our life span, unless you are around 90 YO !!! :)
Well that's no fun for me. Maybe the other way? The robots and nanites build a world 4x larger to mock the human race, and shape themselves into giants to control us! And also lower the gravity by mining out the iron core of the planet.

Okay, I don't really want people to shrink, it's just a fantasy.
Of course - To each it´s own - But realistic Robot Humanoids will precisely satisfy some Giant´s thirst while spearing real people from shrinking !!!
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